Celestial vs Prophet trading - Who wins?

mmmdb

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Just FYI I have invested a significant amount of cash into Celestial. Prophet sound very similar. It's performing as promised, so far. Just seems to be very difficult to find people who are prepared to take the risk and dive in, so it was affirming to see @Cas has gone in.

Still trying to work out how I'm going to get fucked over, as appears to be working ok.
 
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Cas

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Just FYI I have invested a significant amount of cash into Celestial. Prophet sound very similar. It's performing as promised, so far. Just seems to be very difficult to find people who are prepared to take the risk and dive in, so it was affirming to see @Cas has gone in.

Still trying to work out how I'm going to get fucked over, as appears to be working ok.
Oh you invested in it, how well are they performing ? can you show me more about Celestial please
 

Rs20033

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@Cas

Celestial‘s website is here https://www.celestialtt.com/

their myfxbook (independent results tracker) is here https://www.myfxbook.com/members/CelestialTT/celestial-trading-tools/3188764

the main differences are:

CTT fee is £15 per month hosting and 20% of profits
PFX fee is £15 per month hosting and 30% of profits

Prophet-FX have a higher % return per month on average.

CTT minimum investment is £1000 and PFX is now £3000

This type of trading is called CFDs in the UK and it’s best to check with a financial advisor but it is more than likely that you need to pay capital gains tax on profit made (even if you don't withdraw) if you are over the threshold so bear that in mind if you invest. HMRC shows you the calculations to work out which rate of CGT you will pay. I can find the link if anyone needs it - their website is a bit of a maze.

I was going to post here after a month of trying this but since this conversation has started I will now share that on the 15th January I invested £2000 with Celestial Trading Tools. I chose them over Prophet because the minimum amount was lower and also I like the way they are VERY clear on their website about the risks and that you can lose your entire investment. I had heard that their customer service was slow so I emailed them a few daft questions before I invested (In the evenings) and got answers the next day, so not a long wait.

Anyway, as of now i have made £51.60 profit in 10 days (no trades at weekends). I have watched the trades placed and I feel comfortable that my money is being invested wisely. Now I can see how it works I’ve decided to also invest with Prophet FX. I’m going to leave the CTT one compounding and withdraw say 80% of the annual profit on the PFX one so it keeps growing. That’s the plan and I’ll keep you updated.

i just want to repeat. Your funds are at risk with this type of investment. Only invest what you can afford to lose.

edit - I’ve just read this back and I didn’t want you to think I was patronising you @Cas. I know you know more about this than me. I added the extra info for others that might read!
 
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mmmdb

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@Cas I heard about it via a matched betting forum. Wasn't pushed into it, no affiliate linking, same kind of deal here, someone asked about it (no company names mentioned), someone else shot it down and someone else poked their head above the trench to say it was working for them. I dm'd the poster who'd had some success, asked him a few questions, found the site for myself and jumped in.

The performance chart is here: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/AFT2018/auto-forex-trading/3320001. I was considering automating trading a few years ago as I was convinced it would take out the emotion and do it for me (I do a similar thing, share trade copying albeit slower via a paid email subscription which is working for me), so I knew that kind of thing worked but didn't know anything about the automated side of it.

It's performing well, I could see that after I put a few thousand in from the first week. And I'm sure you've made yourself a spreadsheet with the compounded profit in it too! So I couldn't resist, I got together a bigger lump sum, stuck it in and it 's going ok. It's performing (after projected fees, I built that in too) at about a 5% return for the month (I've been in it about 3 weeks now). Like, today by midday it was up over £200. Last Friday was slow, just £30. At the moment the current 5 or 6 trades are totalling between -£200 and -£300, but I think it's fine, you have to get comfortable with it, hopefully they'll pull back. When I had the smaller amount in it went -£200 and then overnight bounced back a £60 return. Probably best not to have the MT4 app on your phone, it's like crack/Instagram, you end up checking it about a thousand times a day.

Like I said I'm trying to work out who's going to fuck me and how. IC Markets won't (as far as I can tell). And Celestial can't take it from me, or trade it away as they are doing it on their own account and what's the point of doing that?? It's not like the trillions being traded a day they will be able to influence any currency for their own benefit.

I'm wary of people on forums, where are they getting their cut? What is their involvement? Having detractors like the good reverend is refreshing, but I think you got to see the results for yourself. Amongst my friends it looks like I am the guinea pig trying this out.
 
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Re: Tax. My accountant says this venture will not attract any CGT but should check with my overseas accountant (I'm British but live and work in mainland Europe, moved a couple years ago). I have property income in the UK that takes me into the higher rate band. I am due a call with an accountant over here to see if I am liable in this country, but my preliminary checks tell me it's the same here. No CGT.
 
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Rs20033

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Re: Tax. My accountant says this venture will not attract any CGT but should check with my overseas accountant (I'm British but live and work in mainland Europe, moved a couple years ago). I have property income in the UK that takes me into the higher rate band. I am due a call with an accountant over here to see if I am liable in this country, but my preliminary checks tell me it's the same here. No CGT.
Ooh ok. Thanks for that. That’s good. This was one of the questions that I asked Celestial and they said they were CFDs and I would have to pay tax. I just presumed CGT since it’s a passive investment. I will definitely check with an accountant though when I get near the threshold (I think it’s £12,000 so I have a while yet).
 

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This was one of the questions that I asked Celestial and they said they were CFDs and I would have to pay tax
That's interesting and I've seen many conflicting answers too (eg Facebook groups saying no tax). But if you heard it from THEM then they are either covering themselves for all eventualities or my accountant doesn't quite understand the product. Might have to get a second opinion...
 

Rs20033

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That's interesting and I've seen many conflicting answers too (eg Facebook groups saying no tax). But if you heard it from THEM then they are either covering themselves for all eventualities or my accountant doesn't quite understand the product. Might have to get a second opinion...
Here is the most reliable looking website that I found: https://www.dnsassociates.co.uk/blog/tax-currency-trading-forex-gains-binary-options-uk
When I get close to the threshold I’ll be contacting them since they definitely have the knowledge in that area. The last thing I want in 15 years time is a huge tax bill when I'm on my yacht in the Caribbean!
 
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Cas

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Thanks for all the info

is it easy to have 2 accounts on ICm markets ? @Rs20033
 

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(and yes you can have multiple mt4 accounts in IC Markets)
 

Cas

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homie

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Still trying to work out how I'm going to get fucked over.
By a sudden drop in the market which the system decides to keep doubling down on expecting it to recover, except it doesn't.
By the system not setting a necessary stop loss.
By an unexpected natural disaster, war or political event causing havoc with the markets.
By an IT failure with the trading company screwing everything up.
By the owners cashing everything in and doing a runner to Brazil.
etc

I Looked at Myfxbook link you gave. Do you know what happened in January last year? Untitled.png
 

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All perfectly valid points @homie, I have some answers to these:

By a sudden drop in the market which the system decides to keep doubling down on expecting it to recover, except it doesn't
I haven't seen this happening yet, although I could always be wrong.

By an unexpected natural disaster, war or political event causing havoc with the markets
Happened in December 2019, see below (your January reference)

By an IT failure with the trading company screwing everything up
Always a possibility, yes

By the system not setting a necessary stop loss.
Stop losses are always set and you can monitor them in the mt4 app. It's possible to calculate your possible/maximum losses on any trade from this. The trades they carry out aren't 'all in', sometimes just a few quid here and there, but multiple times a day they add up. So far they've delivered a profit every day.

By the owners cashing everything in and doing a runner to Brazil
This isn't possible as far as I can see, the company cannot cash anything in, they don't have access to your account. They can trade for you yes, but only in forex, I don't see how they would want to do this (or how they could possibly influence a market as large as forex, which trades in trillions per day) especially when your account copies their own. If they fuck up, they fuck up their own account as well, so it's in their interests not to, especially when they only earn commission when they make a profit.

Do you know what happened in January last year?
Not sure what caused that blip, but there was another one in December just gone, it was the GE results. They shut down trading on the approach to events like these now, and for example the monthly US non-farm payroll results.

I'm not trying to be a smart arse, just realistically trying to figure out where the weak point is. Yes, a natural disaster or unforseen political event is quite possible, and will always happen. I've just recently lost a shitload of money to Neil Woodford's exploits so the caution that Celestial is exhibiting gives me some comfort. Hence why am currently looking at splitting the investment between Celestial and Prophet. The track record of each company is there to see, I have (perhaps foolish) faith that they will preserve their record and keep making profits.
 

Rs20033

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homie said:
By a sudden drop in the market which the system decides to keep doubling down on expecting it to recover, except it doesn't”

CTT doesn’t double down. They have a strategy for when a trade goes the wrong way but it’s not martingale and involves opening new trades/moving target and stoplosses on the previous trades to lower risk. When I saw this in action it’s one of the reasons I feel so comfortable with the investment - it doesn’t matter if the trade initially goes the wrong way or never reaches the original target.

I’m not sure but I though January last year on your photo was a withdrawal from the master account since it’s just the balance going down and they made profit that month but I’m not sure. On the myfx book on their website that I linked to yesterday the balance tab is private so I think that’s correct. If anyone is interested I will email them and ask.
 
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Rs20033

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I’m £350 down with CTT. A trade was in a drawdown (around £400 on my £2000 balance) and it has closed. It didn’t hit the stop loss so I’ve no idea what happened. I think I might email them to ask what happened. if it had hit the stop loss then fair enough, it’s a risky investment. It’s reflected on their MyfxBook so it’s not just my account. I’ve just noticed that a second trade on a different currency pair has also closed at a loss. Must be a system error.
If they don’t reimburse me like Prophet FX did with the rogue trade I think I’ll withdraw and just stick with Prophet. Very disappointed and I would advise if anyone is considering CTT please wait until they explain this before investing

Edit - I’ve just sent them a message asking what happened and will update when I get a reply.
 
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