The Secrets of Multi Level Marketing (BBC Documentary)

[Jon]

Good old @katykicker introduced me to this documentary on iPlayer

BBC Three - Secrets of the Multi-Level Millionaires: Ellie Undercover

Ellie Flynn goes undercover to investigate a multibillion-pound online selling industry.

www.bbc.co.uk

For anyone that doesn't know what MLM is, it's basically flogging Younique, Avon, BodyShop, Forever Living, Ann Summers products or Pretending you're a travel agent online etc.

It's nothing we massively don't know as TMS as a whole I know doesn't really touch this sort of stuff but jeez Louise what an eye-opener!

Shows how much MLM prays on Women (or new Mums specifically) as a 'get rich quick' scheme and how recruiting is 80% of the work!

Also mentions how bloody the Law of Attraction crap is used

thoughts?

 

[Castro]

Good old @katykicker introduced me to this documentary on iPlayer

BBC Three - Secrets of the Multi-Level Millionaires: Ellie Undercover

Ellie Flynn goes undercover to investigate a multibillion-pound online selling industry.

www.bbc.co.uk

For anyone that doesn't know what MLM is, it's basically flogging Younique, Avon, BodyShop, Forever Living, Ann Summers products or Pretending you're a travel agent online etc.

It's nothing we massively don't know as TMS as a whole I know doesn't really touch this sort of stuff but jeez Louise what an eye-opener!

Shows how much MLM prays on Women (or new Mums specifically) as a 'get rich quick' scheme and how recruiting is 80% of the work!

Also mentions how bloody the Law of Attraction crap is used

thoughts?

It's a bit sad really isn't it?

It falls to people like you Jon, with best interests at heart, to shit all over peoples dreams to try and help them not throw good money after bad.

I had an ex-girlfriend who fell into some door to door selling job that was almost like a cult - long hours doing charity DD sign ups; you got £20 a pop commish and that was it! She was doing mad hours and had moved into a flat with some others with the same job. I went to a post-work drinks once and the more experienced (tho imo still massively conned) sellers were full of BS about how if you did it for 9 months or whatever you could then be leading a team and be earning £30-40k etc etc; all while using silly, over complicated terminology to explain it. People seemed to buy into it through desperation rather than greed - if no one else will offer you a job and your only choice to survive is to make those sales you gotta believe the guy that you can make those sales and get to the next stage right?

A truly sordid business.

 

[Jon]

It's a bit sad really isn't it?

It falls to people like you Jon, with best interests at heart, to shit all over peoples dreams to try and help them not throw good money after bad.

I had an ex-girlfriend who fell into some door to door selling job that was almost like a cult - long hours doing charity DD sign ups; you got £20 a pop commish and that was it! She was doing mad hours and had moved into a flat with some others with the same job. I went to a post-work drinks once and the more experienced (tho imo still massively conned) sellers were full of BS about how if you did it for 9 months or whatever you could then be leading a team and be earning £30-40k etc etc; all while using silly, over complicated terminology to explain it. People seemed to buy into it through desperation rather than greed - if no one else will offer you a job and your only choice to survive is to make those sales you gotta believe the guy that you can make those sales and get to the next stage right?

A truly sordid business.

I think you are 100% spot on and that's what the documentary shows. That these women pray on other other (mostly mums at home etc.) and people sign up out of desperation rather than green like you said.

I've talked before about how I can feel I am banging my head against a brick wall when it comes to showing people non MLM stuff

Feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall sometimes!!

I remember posting something similar to this back in 2014 when I first setup TMS. I am FOREVER trying to help people who I see struggling or complaining about the lack of money they have on Facebook or Twitter or whatever or even reaching out to them via email! So I explain that there is a...

www.themoneyshed.co.uk

Recruiters know what they are doing

Play on the fact they are a woman to other women
Play on the fact they are a mum as well
Play on the fact they are 'their own boss'
Play on 'crystals' and 'law of attraction' type shit
Call themselves bossbabes to appear fun and approachable

The 'being an at home travel agent' ones really grinds my gears as that's something they are in no way qualified to deal with and taking thousands of people off people (via Facebook of all platforms!) to book their holiday for them and then skim off the top of scummy to the end!

 

[Castro]

Thing is Jon is most people deep down don't really want it enough. I struggle with this on an at least weekly basis myself - I haven't MB for a few weeks, hard to get back in the swing of it sometimes, sometimes ebay stuff sits unlisted for weeks, etc.

Look at the amount of people who come here and say "I wanna be earning an extra £100 a month at least" get shown a bunch of stuff which will easily earn them at least that and then they never post again?

I think too many people want it all with no effort - even MB takes patience, a bit of intelligence and a few hours of your time to make money.

This goes double for people bitching and moaning on facebook - happy to waste their time complaining but why aren't they using that time to make money?

 

[The Reverend]

I remember the BBC or ITV morning show was promoting a 'Women Empowering Women' pyramid scheme.

Career women lose thousands at pyramid scheme 'parties'

The noise is deafening. Crammed into the upstairs bar of a pub in north London are more than 100 women and they are all talking at once.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Jon]

I remember the BBC or ITV morning show was promoting a 'Women Empowering Women' pyramid scheme.

Career women lose thousands at pyramid scheme 'parties'

The noise is deafening. Crammed into the upstairs bar of a pub in north London are more than 100 women and they are all talking at once.

www.independent.co.uk

18 years later I don't think we are any further forward to be honest. The Internet moves at a lightning pace yet these companies and schemes still depend on 90% recruiting, 10% selling expensive products...

 

[katykicker]

I felt a bit sick watching it tbh.

 

[Jon]

Thing is Jon is most people deep down don't really want it enough. I struggle with this on an at least weekly basis myself - I haven't MB for a few weeks, hard to get back in the swing of it sometimes, sometimes ebay stuff sits unlisted for weeks, etc.

Look at the amount of people who come here and say "I wanna be earning an extra £100 a month at least" get shown a bunch of stuff which will easily earn them at least that and then they never post again?

I think too many people want it all with no effort - even MB takes patience, a bit of intelligence and a few hours of your time to make money.

This goes double for people bitching and moaning on facebook - happy to waste their time complaining but why aren't they using that time to make money?

I get what you are saying and I agree a lot of people start off with 'I want to earn £100 a month' and then they bomb out but do you think maybe that's to do with the information on how to do that not being presented to them in the right format? Maybe if they got the same information instead via Instagram Posts they would react differently..

 

[An-na]

I get what you are saying and I agree a lot of people start off with 'I want to earn £100 a month' and then they bomb out but do you think maybe that's to do with the information on how to do that not being presented to them in the right format? Maybe if they got the same information instead via Instagram Posts they would react differently..

No Jon, I don’t think it is how the information is being presented to people in any format. How difficult is it to snap a few receipts, do a few surveys or point and swipe at snakes?

I agree with Castro, “most people deep down don't really want it enough”,
“I think too many people want it all with no effort”. I have spoken with people about some, but not all, of the things I do, only to be met with blank looks. Then I tell them how much I have earned and they get interested. But only in the money and then the blank looks come back again. So I have stopped mentioning this to anyone, even my best friend.

Darwinism rules everywhere, even here. It is the survival of the fittest, or in this case the ones who take action and just get on with it. The rest are lazy and will die out, metaphorically.

Now don’t even get me started on the word “empowerment” Grrrrrrrr

 

[Jon]

Just slightly related to this in terms of 'resetting expectations'

On This Morning today they had this joke of a feature

Making money from the comfort of your home

With more people looking for ways to increase their income, online money making schemes have dominated the internet, but do they really work?

www.itv.com

SELL YOUR PHOTOS (YOU COULD EARN AROUND £20 A DAY)
If friends always comment on how nice your holiday snaps are, then why not make some money from them? You can sell your photos (of wildlife or buildings) to stock sites like iStock, Alamy and Shutterstock.

SURVEYS (EARN £10-15 PER DAY)
Earnings vary but £1 per survey is typical. Do one survey a day and you could earn more than £300 a year.
Try getpaidto.com and swagbucks.com. Other sites include YouGov.co.uk - which is reputable and straightforward.

GetPaidTo and Swagbucks?!?!?

IT's like they just typed in 'make money online' and then copied the top 5 ideas!

 

[The Reverend]

I get what you are saying and I agree a lot of people start off with 'I want to earn £100 a month' and then they bomb out but do you think maybe that's to do with the information on how to do that not being presented to them in the right format? Maybe if they got the same information instead via Instagram Posts they would react differently..

I think its more about HOW to do it.

There are a lot of people promoting Swagbuck, for example, but the only way to really make money on SB is to promote/affiliate SB.

I've got some ideas on how people might want earning from home presented to them - and I've got a few website addresses I'm not using at the moment.

I think the biggest challenge is a lot of the 'earning' isn't guarenteed. All the task-apps, well if you are lucky enough to be in an area that has tasks, you need to be quick enough to be able to bag the tasks, not an easy thing to do. Living in London and having a job means I miss out on plenty because I'm not the fastest finger first.

 

[Jon]

I think its more about HOW to do it.

There are a lot of people promoting Swagbuck, for example, but the only way to really make money on SB is to promote/affiliate SB.

I've got some ideas on how people might want earning from home presented to them - and I've got a few website addresses I'm not using at the moment.

I think the biggest challenge is a lot of the 'earning' isn't guaranteed. All the task-apps, well if you are lucky enough to be in an area that has tasks, you need to be quick enough to be able to bag the tasks, not an easy thing to do. Living in London and having a job means I miss out on plenty because I'm not the fastest finger first.

I think I mention the 'is it being presented in the right way' thing because I remember a meeting we had at work once which was about that fact some were having issues with staff engaging with their ideas and concepts as managers and I explained that the fact doesn't necessarily lie with the worker but instead with the manager and in how they are presenting the ideas to them and it was a lightbulb moment for some of them when they realised how things are communicated is key!

I think that holds true to 'earning online' as well. If you ever look at things like the BeerMoneyUK reddit it's a total mishmash of endless 'sign up under me' affiliate links rather than what it should be on the tin..

The point being that you sort of hit 10 tons of crap BEFORE you hit sites like this which COULD actually help you but by that point you are generally so jaded or confused you just give up on anything that isn't earning swagbucks!

 

[The Reverend]

I think I mention the 'is it being presented in the right way' thing because I remember a meeting we had at work once which was about that fact some were having issues with staff engaging with their ideas and concepts as managers and I explained that the fact doesn't necessarily lie with the worker but instead with the manager and in how they are presenting the ideas to them and it was a lightbulb moment for some of them when they realised how things are communicated is key!

I think that holds true to 'earning online' as well. If you ever look at things like the BeerMoneyUK reddit it's a total mishmash of endless 'sign up under me' affiliate links rather than what it should be on the tin..

The point being that you sort of hit 10 tons of crap BEFORE you hit sites like this which COULD actually help you but by that point you are generally so jaded or confused you just give up on anything that isn't earning swagbucks!

Where it is interesting is what the purpose is;

If you are trying to earn aff fees, then promoting scheme 'x' that gets you 'y' for every sign-up will be the key. That does mean that once someone has got you 'y' then what good are they for you?

If you want to earn from advertising then you need to BLAST the socials with SEO maxed out blog posts to drive a million people to your blog and get you earning the ££££. It doesn't matter if they come back, you've had your page impression.

If you want to get free trips then you 'Gram' it up and tell the world you are an influencer. Travel the world, one instagram story at a time, somehow seeming to forget to add the text [ad] or [freebee] to the start of your post.

One of my websites (well planned websites) is taking it down a new route. Not sure how well it will pan out but I think it caters for what is missing.

But, as always, I'm a fucking idiot and far too lazy. Plus, I've currently got my own time-leech draining me at the moment.

Excuses, Excuses. Thats why I'm still working for 'the man'.

 

[Castro]

I have spoken with people about some, but not all, of the things I do, only to be met with blank looks. Then I tell them how much I have earned and they get interested. But only in the money and then the blank looks come back again.

This is very familiar!!

People are impressed you make money and might even ask how you do it or ask for you to show them the ropes etc - when you start getting into technicalities and the fact that you can show them stuff but can't (for instance) learn and understand matched betting for them they quickly lose inetrest again!

 

[The Reverend]

This is very familiar!!

People are impressed you make money and might even ask how you do it or ask for you to show them the ropes etc - when you start getting into technicalities and the fact that you can show them stuff but can't (for instance) learn and understand matched betting for them they quickly lose inetrest again!

I think I covered it well here.

Feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall sometimes!!

I remember posting something similar to this back in 2014 when I first setup TMS. I am FOREVER trying to help people who I see struggling or complaining about the lack of money they have on Facebook or Twitter or whatever or even reaching out to them via email! So I explain that there is a...

www.themoneyshed.co.uk

MB is a real hard sell, and not one I tend to do for many reasons. I remember it being sold as 'no risk' then seeing posts from people saying they'd not noticed they hadn't layed the bet, they'd just placed it again creating a 'risk' that requires more capital to correct or risks a large loss. Not 'No Risk' at all!

 

[Jon]

Where it is interesting is what the purpose is;

If you are trying to earn aff fees, then promoting scheme 'x' that gets you 'y' for every sign-up will be the key. That does mean that once someone has got you 'y' then what good are they for you?

If you want to earn from advertising then you need to BLAST the socials with SEO maxed out blog posts to drive a million people to your blog and get you earning the ££££. It doesn't matter if they come back, you've had your page impression.

If you want to get free trips then you 'Gram' it up and tell the world you are an influencer. Travel the world, one instagram story at a time, somehow seeming to forget to add the text [ad] or [freebee] to the start of your post.

One of my websites (well planned websites) is taking it down a new route. Not sure how well it will pan out but I think it caters for what is missing.

But, as always, I'm a fucking idiot and far too lazy. Plus, I've currently got my own time-leech draining me at the moment.

Excuses, Excuses. Thats why I'm still working for 'the man'.

See I think it's because people end up thinking 'I don't have enough time!' etc that when the magic Younique or Avon girls reach out to them via Facebook and offer them untold riches by just 'chatting to their friends online!' combined with 'women lifting up other women' combined with 'some law of attraction' crap and so they jump at the chance.

It still fascinates me how this still all seems to be with the female gender as well. Are women more susceptible to this sort of marketing? I don't think I've ever seen a bloke do MLM to earn money online, like EVER!! What's that about??!!?

 

[Castro]

See I think it's because people end up thinking 'I don't have enough time!' etc that when the magic Younique or Avon girls reach out to them via Facebook and offer them untold riches by just 'chatting to their friends online!' combined with 'women lifting up other women' combined with 'some law of attraction' crap and so they jump at the chance.

It still fascinates me how this still all seems to be with the female gender as well. Are women more susceptible to this sort of marketing? I don't think I've ever seen a bloke do MLM to earn money online, like EVER!! What's that about??!!?

Maybe because women typically wouldn't get make up/haircare/beauty/etc product tips from blokes - not to mention the Ann Summers stuff!
I honestly can't think of anything "blokey" which you could flog to other guys for profit - i think too many men are the cheapest-deodorant-in-the-shop kinda guys to care enough about paying over the odds for brand name skincare or deodorant or razors or whatever. Maybe I'm biased but I think men typically consume less of this kind of stuff in general.

 

[disneygirl]

I think it is horrible, there is something very cult-like about some MLM.